Mark Malatesta Review and Interview with Deepa Kannan
During this interview and Mark Malatesta review, Deepa Kannan talks about her book, best tips for writers, and experience working with former literary agent Mark Malatesta, who helped Deepa get a literary agent and a book deal with Harper Collins. Deepa is the author of the nonfiction book, How to Sleep Better: The Miraculous Ten-Step Protocol to Recharge Your Mind and Body.
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Mark Malatesta Review by Deepa Kannan
“Thanks to you and your valuable information, I got a very reputable agent and my book was acquired by Harper Collins. I couldn’t believe it. They loved my book. You shared excellent advice regarding how to make my title and subtitle more alluring, and you explained how I should reduce the word count and rewrite the first part of the book. It came out beautifully. My time with you transformed everything. Thank you for your belief and kindness and all the excellent advice. I would not be here today if not for you.”
Deepa Kannan
How to Sleep Better: The Miraculous Ten-Step Protocol to Recharge Your Mind and Body
(Harper Collins)
The review of Mark Malatesta above is an edited excerpt. Click here to see the complete Mark Malatesta review, and here to see more Mark Malatesta reviews.
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Deepa Kannan Interview
During this 60-minute interview with Mark Malatesta, author Deepa Kannan talks about her nonfiction book, How to Sleep Better: The Miraculous Ten-Step Protocol to Recharge Your Mind and Body, published by Harper Collins. During this interview, Deepa also shares her best advice for writers, and she talks about her experience working with Mark Malatesta, a former literary agent turned author coach and consultant, who helped Deepa get a literary agent.
Part 1 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Mark Malatesta: Hi everyone, this is Mark Malatesta with TheBestsellingAuthor.com, helping authors of all genres (fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books) to write, publish, and promote their work.
For those of you who don’t know me, I’m the writer who went undercover and became a literary agent to find out how to get my own books published. A literary agent is someone who gets authors book deals with traditional publishers like Random House.
After running a literary agency for approximately five years, I then served as the Marketing & Licensing Manager of Blue Mountain Arts. That’s the book and gift publisher that invented e-greetings, and later sold their e-card division for close to one billion dollars.
Today I’m an author coach and consultant who’s helped hundreds of authors get offers from literary agents and/or traditional publishers…and I love promoting my authors.
They’ve gotten 6-figure book deals and advances with major publishers such as Random House, Simon & Schuster, and Thomas Nelson. They’ve been on the NY Times bestseller list, had their work picked up for TV, stage, and feature film with companies like Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks, Lionsgate, and HBO Max. They’ve won countless awards. And they’ve had their work licensed in more than 40 countries…resulting in millions of books sold.
Part 2 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Deepa Kannan is the author of How to Sleep Better: The Miraculous Ten-Step Protocol to Recharge Your Mind and Body, published by Harper Collins.
Most people don’t realize 10-30% of adults struggle with chronic insomnia. In How to Sleep Better, Deepa explores the root causes of poor sleep, and she provides tips to enhance the quality and duration of your resting hours, so you can rejuvenate your life.
Deepa explains how and why we sleep, what our body does while we rest, and the reasons behind common sleep problems. She also shares how to use your ten senses (not five) to enjoy a restful night. I’ll let her explain that during our time together today.
Deepa blends cutting-edge scientific principles with ancient Indian wisdom to support bio-individual healing, health, and longevity. She’s host of the Sleep Whisperer podcast, a space for insightful conversations about sleep, health, and well-being…featuring distinguished thought leaders and practitioners from across the world.
Deepa’s journey as a healer is a one of continual evolution, running in parallel with her life. She’s navigated childhood struggles, a failed marriage and divorce, remarriage to her soulmate, and the birth of a child with a rare genetic disorder. Through it all, she’s used adversity as fuel for growth and transformation.
Welcome, Deepa!
Deepa Kannan: Thank you, Mark. It’s a pleasure to be here, very grateful. Yours was one of the interviews I was really keen to do. You introduced me beautifully, and there’s a lot to unpack, even in the introduction itself. I’m so happy to be here today.
Mark Malatesta: Thank you so much. I’ve been looking forward to this very much, partly because it took a lot of time for you to get from A to B to Z, and because you did so many things that impressed me that most people wouldn’t do. The longer it takes, the harder it is, so to speak, the more rewarding it is when we get to this point. So, I’m really excited to share your journey with everybody. I spoke a moment ago, briefly, about your book. But please take your time here, talk a little bit more about it. As I shared in the introduction, a lot of people struggle with insomnia. So, in addition to people listening to or reading the transcript of this interview for your advice about writing and getting published, I’m sure people will benefit from your book.
Part 3 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: Before I talk about the book, I think I should speak a little bit about traditionally what is spoken about in the context of sleep. There are a lot of sleep books. There’s a lot of work in sleep everywhere, but you’ll find that most of the work in sleep explores similar aspects such as sleep hygiene, or the gold standard in the sleep space is what’s called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, CBTI.
While this is wonderful, and I think obviously if it’s been working and it’s researched back, it is something that has been helping a lot of people. So, I’m absolutely not here to say anything against that, but I felt that there was something missing in that sleep care paradigm. You’ll find that there’s a chasm that exists between…somebody could be diagnosed with a chronic sleep disorder by a sleep physician. And then there’s someone who has great sleep. But in the gap between these two, there could be millions of people, right, who might not get picked up with a sleep disorder and therefore I felt that there was a gap in the sleep resolution matrix, so to speak.
Mark Malatesta: Hmm.
Deepa Kannan: I felt that one thing sleep physicians were not exploring was physiological root causes, where the body is in some sort of chaos, and that’s preventing sleep. The second is that every one of us could have a different permutation and combination of these root causes. The other aspect, because I am from India, and India has a lot of ancient wisdom in the form of yoga and Ayurveda, you’ll find that there’s a big divide even in terms of science and ancient wisdom. You’ll find that those aligned with that traditionally would not explore looking at lab works, and those in the science world would probably say certain therapies from ancient Ayurveda and Yoga, which are not yet research-backed, maybe needed to be used with a bit of caution.
I felt there was a divide, even over there, but I wanted to integrate this. I wanted to bring together science and ancient wisdom synergistically, rather than divide them. Therefore, I thought about this and needing to do this. So you gave a little sneak peek in your intro where you spoke about ten senses, not five, with an explanation. So, I do want to say that in eastern ancient wisdom there is a concept called the ten Indriyas or the ten senses. Five we know about, which are sight, sound, smell, touch, taste. And then there are five more, spoken about as the sense of action. There are the rectum, genitals, legs, hands, and mouth, which perform actions such as detoxification, reproduction, and locomotion which allow our body to move. Our hands, which allow us to grasp, and then our mouth, which allows us to speak.
How to Sleep Better : The Miraculous 10-step Protocol to Recharge Your Mind and Body is about exploring root causes of poor sleep but using these ten senses as a framework. It’s not rigid at all. I need to clarify that many times that this is just a framework where I’ve used. I juxtaposed various systems in the body and explored them from a context of science and also the altogether practices from ancient India, which not all of them might be research-backed as yet, but things are improving on that front.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Part 4 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Deepa Kannan: So just giving people various options and they can use whatever works for them and whatever calls out to them.
Mark Malatesta: It’s clearly sounding like, well, there aren’t just these four steps that anybody and everybody can or should do to have more quality sleep. It’s going to be individualized.
Deepa Kannan: Yes, that’s perfectly right.
Mark Malatesta: Okay, so let’s see. Let’s go back now in time to when you got the good news of, not only the agent but the publisher, since you have both at this point, and just relive that, when you got the news, how that unfolded at each stage, how you celebrated, if you did anything to celebrate. Some people don’t do anything. Some people do a lot. That’s a visualization that’s always fun for me, for people listening to think, “Oh, what might my version of that look like?” Then we’ll go back in time and talk about how you got there.
Deepa Kannan: Yes, I think that’s such a long story. But if you’re looking at just that exciting news, I would say that would be the day where my agent called me to say that Harper Collins had acquired my book. And you know Mark, I actually realized this exciting news of being told your book is acquired when I first heard one of your own episode’s interviews, and we can talk about that afterwards.
Mark Malatesta: Ah, right.
Deepa Kannan: But you’re so right that I actually did not do much to celebrate. It was only after you asked me what I did to celebrate that I went back and thought, “What do I need to do?” But yes, for sure. I think because in my case it had been a long process and outside of the process outside the journey of book writing and publication.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: I had gone through challenging times. So, for me it was just immense relief, and I don’t know if this makes any sense at all, but it’s almost like you’ve been through labor and delivered your baby and you’re just relieved the end is near. It was something like that for me, but it was just tremendous relief in hearing that news. I think my son was standing beside me when I got the call. He ran down the house and he was so excited. So, I think for me probably the excitement was that I made a little boy extremely happy.
Mark Malatesta: Especially when it takes a very long time to get to that goal, it can at least initially feel a little anticlimactic, but then a little bit later starts to get more exciting. And when you see the cover, more exciting. When you hold the book in your hands, even more exciting, right?
Deepa Kannan: That’s true, yes.I think that you, because you spoke about the cover, perhaps I should say the most exciting moment for me was seeing the cover designs.
Mark Malatesta: I’m curious because it’s always different. Did they ask for your input prior? Did they show you a bunch of options prior, or, they just showed it to you and you liked it?
Part 5 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: They did send across four options, saying the entire Harper office loved this one, and my husband and no one in our family picked the option Harper chose. We went back and forth several times. Even at the very end, after I said, “This is it, I’m picking this choice. Harper still came back to say we still think this is the one you should go with.” Then, finally, my husband and I spoke for a few moments, and I just said I feel as if perhaps they know better as to what would stand out in a bookstore, and what makes sense, so I’m just gonna go with a bit of faith. I did tell them, “I’ll take your word for it. And I’m just gonna go with faith and pick the one that you say that you like.” But they did tweak that after I said that, and the final version was so beautiful that I was quite excited. And I did share that I’m so glad I went with your choice.
Mark Malatesta: Oh good. And I don’t want to forget, you said in the previous question that you were going to add something extra about visualization from when you found me originally?
Deepa Kannan: I think that you know, but maybe we can talk about that when we talk about the entire journey of how I found you and all of that. Because in one of your interviews or a podcast where you talk about traditional versus self-publishing, and the very first thing you spoke on that episode was taking somebody through a guided visualization of imagine that you get a call. And I think that is what gave me goosebumps.
Mark Malatesta: Okay.
Deepa Kannan: That’s what really changed the journey for me, from what I assumed would be self-publishing, to then waiting a long time, but going down the traditional route.
Mark Malatesta: Excellent. I’m glad you felt it when I shared that visualization because I certainly felt it when I experienced what I described in that visualization. I guess that energy goes through. So, okay, now, since this interview is meant to be a case study other authors can learn from and model to some extent, let’s go back to the beginning of your journey as an author, way before the book, way before you and I met. When did you first get the idea that you might be a writer or author of anything, any book?
Deepa Kannan: If you ask specifically about a book, I don’t know, but I think lifelong I did have a natural flair for writing. It would come across as simple as being told as a young girl that letters of communication were extremely clear. It just came naturally. But I must tell you here, Mark, much, much later, and of course I’ve been writing articles way before I wrote my book. But even after I wrote my book, I remember telling a close friend and yoga student of mine that I had just completed writing a book, and he looked skeptically at me and he said, “But you’re not a writer or an author.”
I just want to tell people don’t ever allow anybody to tell you that. The first thing I felt, for a nanosecond, was doubt in myself. I think that obviously my journey changed that, and because I got the publisher, I’m able to look back and tell with certainty that nobody can tell you this, and nobody can know the destiny of your book and your writing. So always have faith in yourself.
Mark Malatesta: I love that. Yes. So, now what other types of writing did you do before you wrote your book? Just talk a little bit more about that because some of the authors I speak with or coach haven’t done anything, or much of anything, prior to getting an agent, and some have done an incredible amount.
Part 6 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Deepa Kannan: I practice something called Functional Medicine Nutrition, which I think people will be very familiar because it’s something practiced by Doctor Mark Hyman, who is so popular, and also wrote the foreword for my book. I started to write a lot of articles. I would write weekly articles on health. And even back then, I remember a lot of friends telling me I was putting in so much time into writing these articles and sharing them every single week, and not getting any money from it.
You know, Mark, I think I’ve come to realize you cannot divide life into little moments where every little thing has a benefit. It’s a culmination of a collective, and therefore, I think you can start anywhere. For me it was just writing so many articles to the point. Initially I was just writing on my own website, but then I was invited to be a guest contributor in a platform in India called Your Story, which is to the millennial corporate startup world.
I wrote about health, weekly articles, and there also, I wasn’t remunerated for it. But today I would surely say that all of that helped on the journey, because then Your Story listed me as a digital influencer for a year, and even Google search just picked up everything I did. So, I would just reiterate that what I said before this, that everything is a culmination of collectives, so don’t really get bogged down by doing something just because it should have benefit at that moment in time. There are all jigsaw pieces that are being fitted together to reveal this picture much later on.
Mark Malatesta: Right, and how did you get the idea for the book? When and how?
Deepa Kannan: I’m cautious to talk about this more because recently I went for a book launch, and it was in the city where I had grown up. I said I’m always cautious to share esoteric aspects because not all the world might believe in astrology or anything like that. But even those aspects apart, I think I was going through a difficult time, and I was practicing functional medicine nutrition, but it was challenging because in India it was something very, very new. One morning I was just walking around the house, and it was as simple as the idea popped in my head.
I shared with my husband it would be so interesting if somebody were to look at sleep through our ten senses, the way it is in India. He flippantly replied, “Why don’t you write a book?” And, you know, we all get so many random thoughts in our head. I think not all of those thoughts sustain, or they kind of sometimes move away. Sometimes they are there but we don’t do anything to take them forward. But in my case, I think there were a lot of interesting connections that took it forward and if you would like me to talk about that, I can do at the cost of boring our listeners.
Mark Malatesta: Oh, I don’t think you’re going to bore our listeners. So yeah, please share a little bit more about that.
Deepa Kannan: Yeah. So, he said this to me and about a year went by and he asked me three or four times, “When are you writing your book?” My reply to him all the time was, “If I was married to a millionaire, I’d have time to write my book.” I will say that, in hindsight, that’s probably not the right thing to say because writing can be done by anybody. Today I realize that even if you devote a few hours a week, you can do great writing. Back then because, you know, you’re struggling to work and you’ve got so much going on, it was definitely difficult to sit down and write it.
So, one year went by and then one day he called me up to his desk and he showed me on his computer…this is why I said I’m cautious to talk about esoteric aspects. He said, “You know, look at your Eastern.” In the East, we have something called Vedic astrology, which correlates in the West to Western astrology. Well, he read out, “It’s written here that if you’re an author, you’ll get global recognition.” That very night I went on Facebook, and I saw a friend of mine in the US called Jessica Drummond. She had written a tiny post where 15 pages more to go, Jeremy, keep me on track.
And then when I looked up to see, who is this Jeremy? There was a group for self-published authors, and that’s where it started. So, I’m very grateful for it, and I’m absolutely not saying if somebody wants to go down that route, great for them. So, I joined the group, and it did help to write the entire book over six months. Because it helps to have people motivating you, and they are motivating each other. After six months, when I finished the book, as you know, Mark, when we started our work afterwards, the book was almost 200,000 words. And it was you who started to get me to cut that word count. But that was much later.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Part 7 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: So, I finished writing that book, and I was all set to publish it on Amazon Kindle direct publishing. That morning, my husband and I were driving to work in the city, and I said to him, “I feel the destiny for this book is not self-publishing.” He said, “Okay, let’s give it a bit of time and think about that.” He dropped me off somewhere, and one hour later he messaged me the link to your podcast that talks about self-publishing vs traditional publishing. So, I listened to it, and I got goosebumps, where you start by describing what it feels to get a publisher. I said, “Oh my goodness, this is exactly what was in my mind.” But I had no clue it was in my mind. He said, “Well you know, Mark does work with people, and you should consider that.” And that’s how our journey started.
Mark Malatesta: Anything else? So, you have that group, and then you did find me. Was there anything else you did like writers’ conferences, workshops, reading books about writing, working with editors? Anything you would say contributed to your author education?
Deepa Kannan: Not at all, Mark. I would only say that all in my education about writing, editors, agents, publisher came from you. However, I did random Google searches, and you know how Google can be extremely overwhelming. Because there’s a lot of information and you know, if you come across something which says how little of the world can be published. That’s not really motivating. So, I think I’m always of the same belief, go to the experts. I feel that in anything and because I experience this as well when people come to me to work for health, and they’ve gathered bits of information from Google, it can get more difficult to work.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: I’m a firm believer that no matter what you want to do, just go to the expert, and trust them completely. Put your faith in them, because obviously they’ve already walked the path and they’ve got experience, and they can hold your hand and walk you through that process. For me it was truly you, Mark. You’ve got such a detailed form to fill out that even before we started our work together, writing out your form was a major education for me. But of course, you provide people with cues as to how to fully fill out your form, and you connect to your blog posts and podcasts, for example. What is a Query Letter? and all that. So, my literary education really started with you, and filling out your form.
Mark Malatesta: And that author questionnaire you’re talking about, I want to make sure everyone understands that, if they’re doing an introductory coaching call, they get that detailed questionnaire to fill out, right?
Deepa Kannan: Yes.
Part 8 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Mark Malatesta: Okay, now, let’s start doing a deep dive into your advice for writers, and you did share a little bit of advice already for authors regarding how to write a book when you were talking about being part of a group, or on that schedule to kind of get support and accountability. Any other advice you have? It could be specific to a nonfiction book like yours or it could be more general advice. Anything for someone who’s writing or thinking about writing a book, what might be the top few things you would think could be beneficial to them.
Deepa Kannan: Just to clarify, Mark, when I was part of the group for self-publishers, there wasn’t any guidance on how to write a book. So, I simply sat down and wrote. One of the things I’m personally, and probably have a natural tendency for, is frameworks. I would say that, in hindsight, if I’m writing my second book now, I would definitely say frameworks are great. I always script out and structure. And for example, my book, The 10 Senses is a framework. Now when you have framework, it gets very simple to break down those sections and then dive deeper. Obviously, that might not be the possible for fiction and that might work differently. But I would say frameworks are a great way to do it.
The second is always structuring time. If you’re going to randomly think that I’m gonna write one day or, it’s probably not going to happen. But even if it’s just one or two pages, set aside 15 minutes to begin with and just begin, and that makes a world of difference. Now if you say that if a chapter, I’m going to break down chapters and I’m just going to do four pages a day. And even if it’s not perfect, it’s absolutely fine. Because obviously, in traditional publishing, I mean I must have gone through six different edits. And a lot of those things get cleaned up in the edits. So, the first aspect should not be about perfection. It should be about communication. I would really say think that you’re speaking to a friend and just writing it out without considering aspects of perfection.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: Then I would say, don’t go back and read your work, perhaps, that worked for me. Maybe it’s different for others, but I just feel that things don’t come together until you finish the entire book. After our work together, I rewrote the entire book again by changing so many things. So, first round of writing, don’t read every chapter. Just go with the flow and keep writing. When you get to the end, you might find that you come back and start reading and you get very different perspectives, which give you clarity on the direction that it has to take forward. So just don’t go back, don’t strive for, “It has to be perfect.” What seems to be perfection today may seem imperfection a few months down the line. You’ll never know until you revisit the same information from a different perspective. I hope that’s enough. Would you like me to share some more?
Mark Malatesta: That’s great, but yes, if you have more, go ahead. We have time.
Deepa Kannan: Well, I think that today, Mark, I would say that if I’m writing a book again, I would definitely change many things which I did last time. So, one of the biggest things I would change is the word count, and you know you did bring me down. When, after our work together, I cut it down from 200,000 to 160,000, which itself was way too much. And now the book is only 90,000, and I remember you telling me that it should be less than, it should be about 80,000. That’s what you had told me.
Mark Malatesta: Right, right.
Deepa Kannan: So, I think that second time around, this can be both good and bad. But when I write a second book, I will definitely not need to write 200,000 words. Because it’s a lot of time to write it, and it’s a lot of time to edit and cut that down again.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Part 9 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: That can be a good thing. So, just begin with the word count. If you’re creating a framework or structure, I always sit down and break down my chapters, my subchapters, and I put down little bits of bullet points on what I’m going to write in each chapter. It does make it a whole lot easier if you script it out, and then you know how much word count you’re going to do for each of those. Keeping it less is actually a good thing, which I realize today. But I had to realize the hard route because I had to go through so many different edits. And the final edit, where they ultimately told me even after I had cleaned up the book, I was told that you have to cut another 10,000 words, when it seemed impossible. So, it was as much as really looking through and cutting down single words here and there to get to that end.
Don’t begin by writing too much because it can be really hard to edit. Word count is a big thing. And what else? I would just say that for me, what worked was having a scheduled time in every single day. Suppose I would say from noon to two is my writing time. And I would go, no matter what happened, I would sit down, I would write. You know, it is hard, Mark. It’s not always easy. And it’s not that every single day you’re gonna sit down and the words are gonna flow. So, it does take a little bit of effort sometimes. And sometimes things just flow beautifully. For me, it doesn’t work to wait for when I’m in a flow state and give up when I’ve got, so to speak, writers’ block. For me, it works when I sit down and schedule time.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: I say I’m going to write no matter what. I can clean it up afterwards. So that really helped me. I think it also fools our mind, in some way where, you know, you start to train it that this time is writing time, and then maybe after that your brain starts to become your friend in that process.
Mark Malatesta: I love that. It’s great to be inspired, but it’s also great to be disciplined. And if you just commit and, and you decide you’re going to be writing during a certain period of time, things will come. It’s just how it is.
Deepa Kannan: Yes.
Mark Malatesta: It’s that part where you say you’re training your mind.
Deepa Kannan: Yes. And I think one more thing I would add, Mark, is that I don’t know if this is right or wrong, but you know, I have grappled with wanting to write fiction. And because I started my writing with nonfiction and I’ve created a niche sort, so to speak, where my world is the intersection of science and ancient wisdom in writing. I do that wherever I write, whether it’s articles or books. I think that you know, there’s so much spoken about, even in terms of your professional work, that stays within a niche zone. And while I have creative inspiration today to sit down and try my hand at fiction, I made a conscious decision to stay with my niche. And I think staying with the niche has so many benefits as well because you get to go deeper and deeper into that same niche area in different ways. And that also creates your blueprint as a writer, so to speak.
Mark Malatesta: You’re able to be more efficient.
Deepa Kannan: Yes.
Part 10 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Mark Malatesta: And build some momentum. So, what about publishing? You mentioned earlier in the interview that you were exploring self-publishing. It’s interesting because you can talk from both perspectives because you were motivated to do that, and then you were motivated to go traditional. So, what changed and why did you go traditional?
Deepa Kannan: I think I should start by saying that listening to your podcast changed it for me in the episode on traditional versus self-publishing. I get why self-publishing is coming to the forefront today because it does open doors for a lot more people to publish and express what is on their mind. But for sure that in my case, as I said, it was a true moment of intuition or gut instinct where I just said to my husband, “I don’t intuitively feel that self-publishing is the route for my book.” It’s not the journey for my book, so it was a momentary decision that happened, and I was all set. I had formatted it, and I was set to self-publish, and I don’t know could we say that what is guiding those decisions, gut instinct.
I think we do know and a lot of times, I think I’ll bring back my journey as a mother. You know, my son has a genetic disorder and a lot of times in the hospital I would say things which should come from a space where I don’t know, and the hospital would not take me seriously. Only to find, two minutes later there was a crisis. And I think that as a mother, you know, you don’t, I would tell people don’t ever allow anybody to tell you that your gut instinct doesn’t matter. I would say that I would probably say the very same thing applies even as a writer, that you do have something called intuition.
It is going to guide you as to what you need to do and what’s the journey that you need to take. It might be different for you. Whatever comes from within, and whatever you feel is a call from within, I think you should go down that route. I decided to go traditional after I listened to your podcast, and you clearly differentiate between the two. I think, and I’m not sure whether I’m right or wrong, but perhaps both have, both open doors in certain ways, probably. Self-publishing, it’s just very much easier to get your book out there. I know it was frustrating for me because my book from writing to publishing and release must have taken four years. And during that time, I must have had several of my health colleagues put their books out.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: It was frustrating because they were just writing. In one month their book was out there. It felt like, “Oh my God, how long is this book going to take?” So, on that note, it’s probably helpful, but on the other hand, today, in hindsight, would I say that I would change the route I took? No, absolutely not, because traditional opens a lot of doors. There’s a lot of support from publishers. Big publishers put in a lot of effort. They’re there every step of the way and it makes a world of difference to learn from their experience. And I think it also helps with promoting. They do good publicity, and you probably also get to be on bestseller lists and all that probably more if you go down the traditional route.
Mark Malatesta: Exactly.
Part 11 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: I don’t know if I’m wrong, but I just feel that that might be the case.
Mark Malatesta: Yes, those are the things, and you can do well self-publishing. But having more support and being able to go bigger, those are the two main takeaways from publishing. And of course, being able to make more money and all that. But usually for authors, they’ll say the number one thing that matters to them is reaching the most readers.
Deepa Kannan: Yes, I would absolutely agree with that, Mark. I don’t know where it was on your episode, but you spoke about how authors need to look at their book as a business. Meaning that they need to treat it as a business and do everything that is necessary to take care of it. I think that is something perfectly said because there’s so much more that you have to think about in terms of what your book does for you than simply breaking it down into the exact money you’ll make. Of course, that’s there, but it opens so many thousands of doors for you. You reach people where you never hoped to reach on that scale, and that’s all going to be great for other aspects of your professional life. You meet wonderful people and connect with great authors. So, I think again, I would say the collective matters more than looking at it in isolation.
Mark Malatesta: Right. And now, I don’t want to throw you off your life path, but you mentioned the idea of thinking about writing a novel. So, there is one book that I want you to read at some point, if you haven’t already. It’s called Save the Cat Writes a Novel by Jessica Brody. You’ll love it because you love structure and planning and plotting in advance, and there really is a formula, to an extent, right? You still have to trust your intuition, as you said, but there’s a lot structurally in common in most novels and stories. You’ll get excited and inspired when you get into that, if you haven’t read that yet.
Deepa Kannan: Oh, I’m definitely going to pick that up.
Mark Malatesta: Now let’s talk marketing. And one of the reasons I was more excited than most to do this interview with you is that you had an unusual path. When we talked and you started working on your profile or your platform, you know how it is. The agents, if you’re writing a nonfiction book, and it’s about creating world peace, curing cancer, reversing aging, or having better sleep…well, they expect you to be somebody, somebody credible who’s a well-known expert who hopefully has this massive network and platform so they can trust your content and your ability and commitment to get eyeballs on the book…so they sell books. Talk a little bit about your journey with what you learned, what you did and, and, in a way, of course, that other authors can learn from.
Deepa Kannan: I think, Mark, you know, you said something about everybody in publishing would ideally prefer someone with a huge author platform.
Part 12 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: Therefore, you have so many celebrities writing books. But I will definitely clarify today that that doesn’t mean theirs is going to be a bestseller and yours is not.
Mark Malatesta: Very true.
Deepa Kannan: I’ll go back to what told me when we first met, and I’ll also say that you have a wonderful way with words, Mark. You offer information to somebody without leaving them feeling demotivated, which is what a lot of coaches in any area can do at times where they leave you feeling that you’re not good enough. You, on the other hand, the first thing you said to me was, “Don’t even try to reach an agent because you’re not there yet.”
You said I needed to build my author platform, that it requires a bit of size. However, I will say that even today, with all my effort, my Instagram is still a thousand five hundred. That doesn’t mean my book is not doing well. There are a lot of things that you can do. There are a lot of ways you can market and promote your book. But you did give me valuable advice to put myself out there. And you scripted it out for me as well that, you know, you need to reach out to a lot of people to request help.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: I started with the advice you gave me. I sat and wrote down what I had to do. One of the biggest things I did ,which built my author platform, was start my sleep podcast. I started the podcast way before I got my publisher, and I started the podcast on sleep. I started getting experts from so many areas, not just sleep physicians, but also, I read everything that I was writing about. So, by the time finally got a publisher, I probably had published about 200 episodes.
Mark Malatesta: Wow!
Deepa Kannan: I had made connections with 200 people in the world of health and sleep, which then became my database to reach out when my book released to, you know, request to be on an interview with them. So, you have to start way before you even probably get a publisher. For me the podcast was a very big thing. Again, I must reiterate that, even along the way with the podcast, I had people repeatedly telling me, “You’re putting in so much time and effort into something which you’re not monetizing.” We need to get away from this narrow thinking of taking apart components of our life and looking at each of them in isolation, which is a lot like what happens in sleep research itself…looking at them in isolation and deciding whether they are worthy of our time because they all come together at the very end.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Part 13 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Deepa Kannan: It was the day I published my first podcast episode that the agent whom I had sent a message to six months prior…saw me post about my podcast release. She messaged me saying, “I missed your message and time ran away. Can we speak?” So, everything comes together. The podcast was something, I wrote a lot of articles, and, you know, today, there is a formula in my mind that you reach out 200 people to request to interview you. Maybe only 10 will get back to you and actually oblige you, and that’s okay.
But you have to find a way to build that database. You have to put yourself out there without expectation. My mantra this year is conscious release of expectation, because you know when you expect you can feel demotivated. So, just expect that you’ll do things. Do two hundred and you’ll get back 10 and build from that perspective, and things can start collectively coming together. And of course, if you go down the traditional publishing route, the publishers support you a lot by getting you good interviews, but you also need to push a little bit with everybody. You need to get a bit pushy.
Mark Malatesta: In a nice way.
Deepa Kannan: Yes, of course.
Mark Malatesta: You gave me a bunch of ideas, so I’ll rattle off a couple things. One, I thought it was funny where you’re talking about when we were coaching, it was motivating, and you were saying how a lot of coaches leave you not motivated. I’m thinking, that’s bad for business. Just from a business standpoint, if you’re a coach or consultant, you sure better get people more motivated or help with that. I thought that was funny. I would take that one for granted.
I love that you’re honest and shared and disclosed your social media numbers, that those aren’t huge. Many people think, because all the experts out there make it sound like, “Oh, if you don’t have 150,000, 10,000, whatever, you know, it can’t happen.” Well, yes it can. Because you were smart and leveraged the platforms of those other people you partnered with to interview on your podcast. So, their platform, in essence, becomes your platform, right?
Deepa Kannan: Yes!
Mark Malatesta: And some of those people will help raise awareness about your book. Love that. And I love your part where you’re talking about how sometimes you just have to invest time and, I’m putting words in your mouth a little bit, follow your passion and just do things. Like it may not seem like it always makes sense or, oh, it’s not going to make money right now, but it will later. I’m right now in the process. I told you before we started the interview, and we’ll talk more about it later, I’m doing some new things, right?
Deepa Kannan: Yes.
Mark Malatesta: Where I’m doing some new things, and I’m working with some of my clients, that are kind of a win-win. Well, it’s new stuff. I’m not charging my clients for it. It’s some extra promotional things for my authors once they’re published. And those who are building their platforms and there are some extra things to help people make their platforms even stronger. It has value, and I could charge for it, but I don’t want to. I want to be in creative bliss for a while, do it quite a few times, help some people. It’s good energy. I know at some point, that will be something I’m somehow monetizing, and it benefits me in other ways. That will come, kind of what you said, that will come, right?
Deepa Kannan: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I’m from the East, Mark, and you know we are big on karma and everything coming together.
Part 14 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Mark Malatesta: Mm-hmm.
Deepa Kannan: Every little good you do will always come back. It may not come back from the same source. But you step out with your best foot forward and most sincere self, and it will always come back in good ways. I will also clarify, our colleagues in the health world who have followings of 100,000 people, and they are quite inspired that I have a book published and I have a forward by Doctor Mark Hyman.
Mark Malatesta: Right.
Deepa Kannan: So, while I have only have a thousand five hundred on my platform that there’s no way in there. I mean, it really is not. There’s so much more that you are than just one platform and the following that you have. And there are a lot of people who will realize that value, and if those who don’t realize, and I must say that I still have lot of refusals, even after having a book out with Doctor Mark Hyman as the foreword, I have people bluntly telling me, “You’re not yet to the level of my podcast.”
It’s hard hearing rejection for sure. But, one thing I’ve coached myself on is that you can just reach out and you can be polite when they tell you something like that. You can always say, “I appreciate your honesty and I look forward to the day I am.” Then move on. That’s their journey, but you’re in a better place for it. And people are going to make rejections all the time. Don’t get demotivated by it whatsoever, because you’re far more valuable than one person’s rejection.
Mark Malatesta: I also want people to know, they certainly don’t need to start their own podcast to get an agent. They certainly don’t need to record 200 episodes. Right?
Deepa Kannan: Absolutely.
Mark Malatesta: Not to say you shouldn’t have, but again, everybody’s got to find their, their own flow there and you know.
Deepa Kannan: Absolutely.
Mark Malatesta: Okay, so now let’s talk a little bit about our work together so people can, and again it’s different for every person, get some sense of how author coaching works. What motivated you to start meeting with me in the first place? I know you had that conversation with your husband. There was an interview, but anything from that moment to the point where you got the publisher that you think might be helpful for authors to understand about my process. Or, generally, how they might benefit from working with somebody who’s knowledgeable in the industry, maybe even not me?
Deepa Kannan: As I said earlier, Mark, I am a firm believer that no matter what you want to do, if you’re gonna get help with your health, go to an expert. Don’t try to fit pieces of random information together. And just as we say that Dr. Google can be wrong. I think the same would apply even in the literary world. You know, writing and publication and the experts do know a whole lot better. So, in my case it was one moment decision where I listened to your episode on traditional versus self-publishing and I just knew that you were absolutely the right person that was there to guide me on that process.
You also have a lot of that information, even for those who are just Googling. Your website has a lot of information where you can read about so many things. But I think it’s important to go to an expert because you really taught me a lot of things. For one, it was, I mean, I had no idea whatsoever about the word count of a book until our work together.
Did I need to put in that much time writing 200,000 words? I would never do that again. I think it’s a whole lot of time, probably down the drain, if I look back. But those are aspects you don’t realize. Yes, you might Google and come across that word count and things like that, but you do need an expert to tell you lot more than that. You actually gave me one thing which made a huge difference. So, when I first wrote my book, the very first writing, the first chapter was all about my story, my arduous journey.
Part 15 – Mark Malatesta Interview & Review
Mark Malatesta: Ahh.
Deepa Kannan: And one thing you told me was that I must rewrite that, and nobody wants to hear about me, and they want to know about what’s in it for them.
Mark Malatesta: At least at first. Nobody cares about us yet, early. We gotta kind of earn it, right?
Deepa Kannan: And you said that with such compassion. You didn’t say that in a way that made me feel I don’t matter. You just said, “Look, when you have to grab the reader in that one moment, they need to know what’s in it for them so they follow through reading the entire book.” Now, I know when it comes to reading, that’s a different world. I, for one, cannot give up a book even if I don’t like it. I just have to finish it. But there are people who read a little bit and say this book is not for me. So, you do need to grab the reader at the start, so your work did make that world of difference.
I went back and even before I went down the route of the agent or the publisher, I rewrote the book, and I did two valuable things from our work together. The first was cutting it down from 200,000, and the second was rewriting the entire book so that the first chapter was all about what’s in it for the reader. That was valuable advice. And, of course, you really script out how somebody can reach out to agents, like what’s a query letter. It would be an abyss of information and you wouldn’t know where to go if you didn’t have somebody guiding you.
Why go through that overwhelm? And why go through that challenging aspect of wondering and questioning, feeling demotivated when you can ask somebody. And beyond all the information you told me in terms of my book, as I said, the most valuable aspect was you telling me to have faith in myself, and you started our very first meeting by telling me the good things…that my writing was good. Then you came to the things I needed to change. And you know, Mark, I followed that template even for my work, where with my health clients, I now begin with the celebrations and then explore the challenges.
Mark Malatesta: That’s good.
Deepa Kannan: And I tell them that why it’s so important to look at the good first, and I think that having been down the road and I’ve experienced, not in the literary world, but somebody had introduced me to a motivational speaker or something for some work. And he must have taken ten minutes to crush me completely, telling me everything that was bad about me. And how I would never be out there if I didn’t work with him. And it took me a week or ten days just to feel less depressed. And it’s quite alarming that there are people like that out there. And I think that having people like you who are just the opposite, who are handholding and generous and supportive, not just with the professional side, but also to reassure and keep your confidence going through the process is extremely important.
Mark Malatesta: I hate what you said about that motivational person. It feels like a sales technique where somebody is just like trying to break you down and make you feel totally dependent. I don’t like that. When I do an introductory coaching call, I want to do it in a way that if that’s the only time they ever have with me, they feel good about it. Not conflicted like, “Oh, that was a tease.” Or, “Oh, I really can’t get what I need unless I do the rest.” No. Like you, you really can make big improvements after that first call. You might make it just doing that right. And then, of course, if we do more together, you have a better chance, and of course there’s more, right? But you don’t want to create that conflict for somebody. At least, I don’t. It doesn’t feel good to me.
Deepa Kannan: Yeah, absolutely. And your initial call is a treasure trove of information. I mean, it’s just invaluable.
Part 16 – Mark Malatesta Review & Interview
Mark Malatesta: Thank you. Now do you have any last wisdom or advice for anybody before we wrap up?
Deepa Kannan: I would just say there’s probably a belief that getting published is an extremely challenging thing because you read about what a small percentage of people get agents and then publishers. Don’t look at those statistics. That statistic could very well be you, and it could be just as simple as keeping the faith. In my case, I had a lot of other things going on. I had my son’s condition and there were a lot of challenges with that. I had a lot of financial challenges during that journey of my book getting published also.
If you’re not in a space where you are really working for survival and you’re in a more comfortable space, I think there’s no better time than to just sit down right now and get started writing a book and working with somebody who can script out and help you get out there to the publishing world. It doesn’t need to be as challenging as it might seem for a lot of people. And truly there is, I don’t think I would look back and say anything has made me as satisfied as seeing my book out there in print.
Mark Malatesta: I love that. Alright. Well, thank you so much for agreeing to do this. And you know, I’m going to follow up with you after this. We’ll do more promo things together and congratulations for sticking with it, getting here. And thank you for preparing with good advice for people and not just coming on and just hawking your book, but really trying to help people. I know everyone’s going to appreciate that.
Deepa Kannan: Thank you, Mark, and you’re always such a good interviewer, and even on random calls, I always have such fun speaking with you and thank you for everything that you’ve done. You’ve played such an integral role on this journey for me that, as you know, there’s an entire paragraph about you in the acknowledgements of my book. So, I can’t wait for you to actually get the book and see that.
Mark Malatesta: Oh, thank you!
Deepa Kannan: Everyone can see who gets the book, my praise for you in the acknowledgements.
Mark Malatesta: Thank you, and I’m not deflecting here. Not too much. But, you know, I’m just a mirror, because you get what you put out there and you’re committed. You’re really good at what you do, and mentally and in your spirit, keeping all that together. So, that’s half of why you find what I do valuable. You’re in the right place for it. So, thank you for that, and making it a joy for me too.
Okay everyone, this is Mark Malatesta, founder of The Bestselling Author, with Deepa Kannan, the author of How to Sleep Better, published by Harper Collins.
And…
If you’re interested in a private 1-on-1 coaching call with me (to talk about the best way to write, publish, or promote YOUR book), visit AuthorConsultation.com.
Lastly, if you’re listening to this interview…or reading the transcript, and you’re not yet a member of my online community, register now at TheBestsellingAuthor.com for instant access to more information (and inspiration) like this to help you become the bestselling author you can be.
Remember…
Getting published isn’t luck, it’s a decision.
See you next time.
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Former Literary Agent Mark Malatesta
This interview and review of Mark Malatesta were provided by Deepa Kannan, author of How to Sleep Better, published by Harper Collins. Deepa worked with author coach and consultant Mark Malatesta to get a literary agent and book deal.
Mark Malatesta is a former literary agent and former AAR member who’s now helped 400+ authors of all Book Genres (fiction, nonfiction, and children’s books) get literary agents and/or traditional publishers. Mark is Founder & CEO of Literary Agent Undercover, a division of The Bestselling Author, through which he provides 1-on-1 Literary Agent Advice (coaching and consulting).
Mark’s writers have gotten offers of representation from the Best Literary Agents at the Top Literary Agencies; book deals with major publishers such as Harper Collins, Random House, and Thomas Nelson; and sold millions of books. They’ve been on the New York Times bestseller list; had their work optioned for TV, stage, and feature film; won countless awards; and had their work licensed in 40+ countries.
Mark is also the creator of the well-known Directory of Literary Agents, with a comprehensive List of Literary Agents seeking writers. In addition, Mark is the host of Ask a Literary Agent, and author of the popular How to Get a Literary Agent Guide. His articles have appeared in outlets such as the Writer’s Digest Guide to Literary Agents and the Publishers Weekly Book Publishing Almanac.
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Mark Malatesta Reviews
Here you can see more Mark Malatesta reviews from authors like Deepa Kannan who’ve worked with Mark to get top literary agents, and traditional publishers like Harper Collins. You can also see reviews of Mark Malatesta from publishing industry professionals. These reviews of Mark Malatesta include his time as an author coach and consultant, literary agent, and Marketing & Licensing Manager for the well-known book/gift publisher Blue Mountain Arts.